Opening up the Awards Forum

[usedbooks]

I must admit, I do wonder if judges judge my own comics differently when I'm a forum admin and can see what they are saying.  Even if they don't do it deliberately.

I really see DAJB's points for sure. This is not a matter of other people agreeing to being okay reading "private" discussions. It's a matter that the people discussing need to decide.  It's like gaining consent of "potential audience" to put up a secret camera in the ladies' shower. But not getting the consent of the ladies.

And I know some people are dying to know things. I know it helps them. But it isn't up to them. It's up to the judges.  So, you should get all the individual judges' consent NOT that of those who want to see it.

That said, I'm okay with people reading my own discussions/analysis/review.



Although I have to agree with DAJB's other point about causing more arguments after the awards. Dear God how I hate discord and a wince at even the possibility of having to see any disharmony whatsoever.  I know you mean well, but... Ugh.  Maybe we should, instead of opening the forum, simply let creators ask about their own topics, present the discussion privately without names and/or in summary and/or let the judges of said topic consent.

In any case, we need to remove the "bitter fan" factor somehow.  The idea of fighting over what should be a fun time makes me physically ill.

[usedbooks]

Oh, and I think it would be fine to open it up to the other judges after the awards  (if all are okay with it).  They are in the inner sanctum and know what judging is about, so I doubt they would give each other grief.

Heck, it might even provide incentive for people to volunteer next year. Sorta "hey, you want to know this stuff? Then you gotta participate! No sideliner lookie-loos!"

[zaymac]

I'm for it. I'd like to see how some other categories were judged, as I feel that everyone could learn a few things.

[DAJB]

I wasn't implying that you've said unfair things, so I apologize if I came off that way  

Ha!  No, that's okay, Nic.  I know where you're coming from on this, and I knew what you meant.  I was just aware that - as the most vocal person disagreeing - someone might assume I did have something to hide!

Oh, and I think it would be fine to open it up to the other judges [...]

I'm afraid that sounds like an artificial distinction to me.  Do you simply allow judges access to all the other categories except those in which their own comic was a finalist?  If not, you're back where you started.  I still believe the judging discussions should stay confidential and between the relevant judges only.

As for its value in potentially attracting more judges, you have to weigh this up against the possible opposite effect.  I like to think that by agreeing to judge I'm giving something back to the DD "community".  However, even though I'm perfectly happy with the content and nature of the comments I've made, I certainly wouldn't volunteer if my comments weren't going to be kept private.  Maybe I'm alone in this but you may find that other people will also be put off.

[Tantz Aerine]

Though I am itching to know how Wolf had been considered in the previous DDawards (knowing the judges didn't choose it) I have to agree with DAJB, albeit really reluctantly.

Hurt feelings aside, if people knew their judging comments would be made public, objectivity would be lessened to an already subjective process- people would be feeling obliged to root for comics/ comic creators rather than judge them, and DDawards would become a de facto popularity contest, when already there is the flaw of a comic being more or less known (rather than its quality level) playing a major role in its chances of being nominated.

Drat and I really wanted to see who dissed my characters! 

[genejoke]

Thinking about it I do think DAJB is right, I mean I was hesitant on comments about used books knowing the creator could read it, cos what i really wanted to do was say how awful it was and that reading it has ruined my life.  But I felt I had to moderate my comments and be nice.

And yes, I am joking about what I wanted to say but the point is it did affect how I wrote about it.  releasing the judging comments with names removed would be better

[Nicotine]

I was going to say as well that releasing comments with the names removed should be okay as well, but, if you've been on the forums long enough, you sort of know everyone's "voice". If you knew the three judges that participated in each category, you might be able to attach them to their comments.

*sigh* but oh how I'm itching to know...xD

[DAJB]

[...] if you've been on the forums long enough, you sort of know everyone's "voice". If you knew the three judges that participated in each category, you might be able to attach them to their comments.

Yup.  I'm sure my long, rambling paragraphs would be easily recognisable!

And, you know, whilst we all think we want to know what other people have said about us, once you've read someone else's comments, what are you really going to think?  Either (i) a weakness will have been identified which - if you've been honest with yourself - you already knew about and agree with; or (ii) other things will have been criticised which you don't agree with, in which case you'll want to answer them.  For most reviews of most comics there will, hopefully, be positives as well but it's the nature of the artist to simply accept those as givens and take the negatives to heart!

If anyone really wants feedback on their comic and if they really feel they can take the negatives as well as the positives, they can always request it in the Comic Review section of the main DD forums.

[raimusxczar]

i would like to know just so i can add some names to my hit list if i didn't win... jk but i would love to know why or why not i didn't win so that i could make my future comics better (yes i am working on some new series').

[genejoke]

[...] if you've been on the forums long enough, you sort of know everyone's "voice". If you knew the three judges that participated in each category, you might be able to attach them to their comments.

Yup.  I'm sure my long, rambling paragraphs would be easily recognisable!

And, you know, whilst we all think we want to know what other people have said about us, once you've read someone else's comments, what are you really going to think?  Either (i) a weakness will have been identified which - if you've been honest with yourself - you already knew about and agree with; or (ii) other things will have been criticised which you don't agree with, in which case you'll want to answer them.  For most reviews of most comics there will, hopefully, be positives as well but it's the nature of the artist to simply accept those as givens and take the negatives to heart!

If anyone really wants feedback on their comic and if they really feel they can take the negatives as well as the positives, they can always request it in the Comic Review section of the main DD forums.

That's plug the reviews,  Malefic is up for review at the moment, feel free.

[dontworrybehappy]

i agree with DAJB...
i dont think i would volunteer to judge if people could read my posts...

[Nicotine]

Yup.  I'm sure my long, rambling paragraphs would be easily recognisable!

As well as your extremely English way of writing!

[genejoke]

And my half arsed punctuation probably gets recognisable after a while.

[usedbooks]

Oh, and I think it would be fine to open it up to the other judges [...]

I'm afraid that sounds like an artificial distinction to me.  Do you simply allow judges access to all the other categories except those in which their own comic was a finalist?  If not, you're back where you started.  I still believe the judging discussions should stay confidential and between the relevant judges only.

I guess I didn't really elaborate so well on my thoughts! ^_^; I meant that other judges know the process and are therefore less likely to argue with the decision-making process, whether or not their comic is one that is under scrutiny.  The distinction is one of mind-set I suppose.  Most judges had to come to agreement on tough contenders and so would be less likely to contest a decision by other judges.

As for whether a distinction should be made between one's own comic or not, I think that's silly. Honestly, I think FANS are more on the defensive than creators are.  I know if it came to a scathing review (not that these are reviews), I would be more apt to speak up in defense of a comic I enjoy rather than one I created.

Anyway, I have previously been dead-set against sharing judging conversations because judges must be able to discuss things without censoring themselves or any level of hesitation. (And being a forum admin, like I mentioned, I worry that maybe people could be more hesitant when discussing my comics. I really hate to think they would be.)  I wonder how much of the fear is founded and how much is theory.  In practical terms, I doubt there would be any actual troubles, but on principle, I guess I'd have to be "completely" against it again. -- Not that we have a secret pact or anything. You could always let your favorite or least favorite authors know what you were talking about.  Giving direct access to private conversations is probably a step too far.

Thinking about it I do think DAJB is right, I mean I was hesitant on comments about used books knowing the creator could read it, cos what i really wanted to do was say how awful it was and that reading it has ruined my life.  But I felt I had to moderate my comments and be nice.

Success! I ruined another life!

Yeah, I saw no one had much of anything to say about UB. It was the odd-man out in the category this year. All (or most) of the others got to be the favorite and least favorite of someone. Poor egotistical me really hoped to have my ego inflated simply by people talking about me. (Or more fuel for my self-loathing. Win-win. )  No worries. I love to see my title snuck in amid all those featured comics -- and forcing the unwilling to read it. Mwahaha!

(See me not name any names, Nicotine? I'm so evil.)

[Nicotine]

I'm thinking a decent compromise would be to allow judges who wouldn't mind telling the creaters (if they want to hear it) what they thought.  That way you only have judges who want to share what they said sharing, and only people who want to hear crit hearing it (or reading it, rather). I wouldn't mind telling people what my impressions of their comic were.